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Not fully curated
Name | Representing | |
Dong Wang (China Telecom) | ONAP | [email protected] |
Ranganai chaparadza | IEEE | |
Daniel Forester | TM Forum (Legal) | [email protected] |
Brad Kloza | IEEE Legal | |
olga martynov | TM Forum | |
Dave Milham | TM Forum | [email protected] |
Thomas Tovinger | 3GPP SA5 | |
Andrea de Vos | TM Forum | |
Yuval Stein (TEOCO) | TM Forum | |
Christian Loyau (ETSI) (Christian Loyau) | ETSI (Legal) | |
Luigi Licciardi lwx426782 | TM Forum | |
Ton Brand (ETSI) | ETSI | |
Aaron Boasman-Patel | TM Forum | [email protected] |
Taka. Nakamura | TM |
Forum |
Apologies
Input Material
- 3GPP liaison S5.214514 on Letter or Intent and IPR posted at: 3GPP Liaison i/c 2021-09-08 Letter of Intent & IPR comments - AN-SDO Collaboration - TM Forum Confluence
Meeting Agenda
- Introduction
- Permission to record.
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Topic: Dave Milham's Personal Meeting Room IPR Legal Representative Discussion
Date: Sep 13, 2021 12:59 PM London
https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/share/YhnvGxHtreaDxq8B0fGSzkjVvI4meay795eHr_CBSOJgvV9tKG91DKPQdjj9wRPd.8lV5j4xJimuYldT2
Meeting notes
Located on-line at 2021-09-13 SDO Legal Representative IPR Discussion Meeting Notes - AN-SDO Collaboration - TM Forum Confluence for thsoe whose have been added to access list.
- Introduction
- All attendees welcomed to the call especially the legal representatives.
- Permission to record.
- Requested and granted
- IPR proposal for joint work items:
- Overview
- Dave Milham gave an overview of the background:
- Over the series of prior meetings we have been identifying what might be practical Autonomous Networks. work between participants.
- Conclusion has been we need an per deliverable contractual arrangement between participants in each deliverable so as to avoid having to create an omnibus multi-SDO agreements which will take time. This need to cover also participation agreement on input IP.
- Both work packages proposals (WP02-Operational Use Cases and WP04-Common Operating Principles) are based on analysis of existing standards and creation of recommendations ( non binding). Moreover, are they are not intended to be standards and expectation is that each SDO would input work package deliverables into their own governance and internal processes and each decide what they should do with the information.
- Meetings have identified two work packages of common interest but not clear how to handle IPR and Copyright / licensing for these planned joint documents.
I.e what to put on the jointly edited document copyright/licensing statement.
- Proposal from TM Forum for discussion -
will be provided later- Open discussion
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- Andrea de Vos TM Forum Legal outlined the proposed approach which leverage the concepts used in the TMF IPR and licensing approach but adapted to the current MSDO situation.
- The key points are:
- TMF role is to act in role of facilitator
- Simple on off contract, unbranded, that can be used by the participating authors in each work package. Not TM Forum document. TM forum is offering to draft.
- Replicates some of copyright structures based on TMF IPR policy concepts with language tweaked to meet the needs of this project initiative.
- Create boundaries in contract to make sure no contribution of patentable material and some waiver on contributed material containing patentable material.
- Work Package particpants would assign copyright to TM Forum and TM Forum would license back to particpants ( and others). to allow for example storage distribution publishing and derived works.
- TM Forum would be a sort of Hub and spoke.
- Efficient for us to use TMF Forum our corporate language but not our IPR.
- Need to keep short and simple.
- Mostly concerned with copyright and license.
- No intend to put burden on contribution.
- Leaves room for major contributing participant to publish first under own branding.
- Need to have right license scope and limitations.
- Interest to hear if that could generally work.
- Questions
- Q: Ranganai Would help to understand how IPR framework could be exercised for second paper by IEEE
If IEEE want to publish on IEEE website and IEEE documents before other would this be covered?- A: Proposal duplicates legal language used in TM Forum but doesn't extend to branding of paper.
- Just need have correct licensing in place and clarity on licensing terms.
- If under IEEE banner first mention IEEE author. The other way separate from copyright Licenses e.g could Handled with language in deliverable recognizing authors.
- Q: Need to understand the process and mode of contribution into SDO
- A:Tmforum as a starting point copyright ownership remains with individual authors in their capacity role wrt to the SDO they represent TM Forum would license bask out to other participants to make derivative works.
- Goals are to avoid changing governance and processes in individual SDO
- Q: Ranganai Would help to understand how IPR framework could be exercised for second paper by IEEE
- Also we think
- the copyright license can be extended to others that were not authors/ participants ( recommended facilitating maximum uptake.)
- Admin Operational issues
- Initial thinking is that signed up participates would be able to upload word versions to the working space rather than allow confluence on line editing as this will keep better track of contributions and avoid no participant material being included.
- Open discussion
- 3GPP provides a contribution S5.214514 with some recommendations
- Summary
- Mainly focused on Letter of Intent
- SA5 happy to continue to collaborate on Harmonized definitions.
- should be each SDO decision on adopting the material.
- SA5 does not know how to handle joint document.
- Think and approach to prior TM Forum 3GPP similar to Fixed mobile collaboration might work ( see later for description).
- Checked with MSCC leadership for guidance.
- Because 3GPP not a legal entity and composed of organization Partners (OP) thereis no one who can sign formal agreement.
- constructive approach identified
- If there is a proposal for a agreement Linked to Letter of Intent or joint documents the process is:
- SA5 needs to review and provide recommendation
- SA5 cannot agree but recommendation comments have to go to OP meeting ( legal meeting only every six months)
- Next one end of October week after next Sa5
- If we can send a proposal in response the LS S5.214514 before 11th October it can then be forwarded to OP meeting to look at
- This suggest we have a target to hit which will help drive us to a conclusion.
- Dave summarized
- Participant agreement to ensure inbound IPR is clean.
- Proposals needs to be written and process needs to be clear.
- Will be more difficult if there are standard alone documents.
- Thomas reviewed the prior TMF 3GPP 5G mobile cooperation.
- Worked on temporary docs as contributions to joint meetings.
- Temporary doc were created by member company or a leader contribution as input for discussion
- Never published temporary documents as approved or agreed.
- Informal gentleman's agreement was that when the temporary documents were okay they took their own temporary documents back to both SA5 and TM Forum.
- No formal publications other than those produced as 3GPP SA5 TM Forum publications
- technical content aligned but not identical text
- Could be that for MSDO that the joint documents remain on workspace, and we could choose not to publish other than via SDOs.
- Anything which is a contribution my have an IPR issue.
- Assisted by having members working in both organizations.
- Operation procedure mode of working
- Seems we need some operational procedures in place we could indicate whether we openly publish
- Thomas noted for example if joint work compared SDO definitions of say AN. then if someone wanted to propose a comprise definition then you have created something new and may have an IPR issue.
- Timeline discussion
- Ideal if TM Forum gets draft IPR /PA and Copyright and license agreement out by 1st Oct with a view to getting into SA5'.s next meeting on 19th Oct.
- Need an operational practice agreement for MSDO meeting on the 27th Sept 2021
- Ranganai mentioned that objective of MSDO proposal is about consuming joint paper work whereas prior work in Fix /Mobile was more about creating the standards.
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Benefit of MSDO proposal is that it captures the topics but does not require every SDO to participate in each deliverable.
- Thomas agreed that having an operational guideline would be helpful but may still have IPR issues.
- Andrea Any content needs to make sure what is in the text is licensed with correct attribute and reference. the turn-around license is really to ensures everything in the paper is correctly licensed. May need some legal support whilst drafting joint documents
- Next steps
- Formal draft to SDO by 1st Oct - Action with TM Forum
- Operating guide for the MSDO call on the 27th Sept 2021
- Need to have some dialogue about publication of the joint document taking note of the process used by Fixed Mobile convergence project between TM Forum and 3GPP
- Need to take account of IEEE needs for publishing second White paper
- IEEE are planning to reply to the Letter of Intent
- Next steps
- key discussion points,
- votes called for and results of same,
- decisions/agreements made during the meeting
- Actions (these can be captured using table)
- Other items relevant to the meeting/activity.
Action List
Next Meeting details
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