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Chat Log
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11:05:51 From Kevin McDonnell : Minutes of Workshop #1 https://projects.tmforum.org/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=146292908
11:11:47 From Nurit Sprecher : which WG in IETF? is it ANMIA?
11:11:51 From Nurit Sprecher : ANIOMA?
11:12:01 From Nurit Sprecher : ANIMA
11:13:53 From Lingli CMCC : autonomic network
11:17:30 From Nurit Sprecher : would be good to see companies but also orgs representing
11:19:21 From Kevin McDonnell : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N7hSW9-cERX971_hxQeptA91zX50yKpMdL4fR94oClA/edit#gid=0
11:19:38 From klaus Martiny (DTAG) : rh
11:20:01 From Dave Milham : draft meting minutes whcih has as input the slides https://projects.tmforum.org/wiki/display/ASC/2021-02-22++Multi-SDO+Autonomous+Networks+Workshop+%232+Meeting+Notes
11:31:51 From Dr.Muslim Elkotob : PoCs are not run exclusively by companies as was just commented; there are coordinated PoC activities in the TC INT PoC series based on GANA Autonomics in 5G and Beyond; and each of the events of the PoC series we run involves several stakeholders in the value chain at the same time (Vendors, ISVs, CSPs, etc.)
11:36:37 From klaus Martiny (DTAG) : that is what I mean. clarification of the common ground and understanfing: e.g. close loops,ettc.
11:38:17 From Nurit Sprecher : RH
11:38:27 From Lingli CMCC : rh
11:40:48 From Emmanuel (Huawei) : rh
11:42:36 From klaus Martiny (DTAG) : agree with Nurit
11:42:46 From Emmanuel (Huawei) : +1
11:42:56 From Zou Lan (Huawei) : agree with Nurit
11:43:06 From Anatoly (Nokia) : RH
11:43:07 From Zou Lan (Huawei) : RH
11:45:39 From klaus Martiny (DTAG) : indeed, that is the reason why there were a couple initiatives tried the hamonized the various prpjects
11:47:43 From Nurit Sprecher : RH
11:51:15 From rRanganai chaparadza : Towards the Standardization of an Overarching Blueprint of Common Operational Principles of Autonomic/Autonomous Networks
11:52:05 From Laurent Ciavaglia (Nokia) to Dave Milham(Direct Message) : Hi Dave, It seems people are using different "raise hand" systems... the built-in raise hand and "RH" in the chat… maybe useful to clarify to avoid issue with queue management ;)
11:53:22 From Zou Lan (Huawei) : which tool we use for RH?
11:53:54 From Kevin McDonnell : lets use chat
11:56:58 From Jörg Niemöller : rh
11:58:13 From Abdul Majid Hussain (Telstra) : In the interest of the time, providing my feedback via this chat
- Agree with most of the speakers, we need to move forward and work towards alignment of taxonomy, architecture, principles, etc
- We need to agree with what we need to do next and create streams of work
12:02:04 From klaus Martiny (DTAG) : rh
12:02:44 From rRanganai chaparadza : Federated Models are part of Modeling and there is a misunderstanding on what is implied by Meta-Model
12:03:05 From Jörg Niemöller : Federated models is what I have in mind when asking to define responsibilities. I still see that we need to define common modelling and API principles. This is in my understanding the meta-model.
12:03:35 From rRanganai chaparadza : Fully agree with you Jorg
12:04:57 From rRanganai chaparadza : RH
12:05:08 From Emmanuel (Huawei) : +1 Dave
12:06:14 From Dr.Muslim Elkotob : Fully agree; the collective set of connections in a federated hyper-model that connects all streams or contributions forms jointly a strucuture to which Ranganai referred to as a meta-model
12:06:59 From Anatoly (Nokia) : @Ranganai - we have been through the "meta-model" discussions (quite literally). The outcome was not federated modeling approach... The FNIM is an example of umbrella model where other models "plug-in"... a meta-model did evolve into "meta-policy" and failed to "fly"
12:07:02 From Thomas Tovinger (3GPP SA5 chair, Ericsson) : RH
12:07:22 From Emmanuel (Huawei) : +1 Nurit
12:07:36 From Leon Wong (Rakuten Mobile) : RH
12:08:18 From Emmanuel (Huawei) : +1 +1 +1 Nurit
12:12:07 From Jörg Niemöller : fully agree to Rangannai
12:12:18 From Anatoly (Nokia) : RH (as an answer to Rangannai)
12:14:07 From James O Sullivan (Huawei, TMF AN) : Enable distributed ownership with shared conceptual and taxonomic models, not full info models.
12:14:32 From Jörg Niemöller : If every SDO sticks to their guidelines as they are we will get overlaps and the same things done differently.
12:15:27 From Raymond Forbes ISG ENI, Huawei UK : Rangannai is correct Frameworks are NOT APIs - Thomas is correct that common documents will take a long time
12:16:38 From Jörg Niemöller : I also believe that the challanges for realizing autonomous networks will require new approaches and and concepts and not just applying standard telco guidelines to be applied again.
12:16:59 From Diego Lopez : Some time ago, we went through a similar process in the network virtualization arena. The agreement was to build a map (or “landscape” if you want), trying to avoid overlaps and to identify and align the contact points in a P2P way. I think this fits well with the federation approach proposed before
12:17:25 From rRanganai chaparadza : Very true Ray.
12:18:45 From rRanganai chaparadza : Jorg, its is true that the traditional approaches in SDOs is no longer viable in the era of automation
12:20:37 From Lingli CMCC : with pleasure@kevin
12:22:26 From rRanganai chaparadza : What we are saying is that FEDERATED Models need to be described in a formal way not using paper text description
12:24:39 From rRanganai chaparadza : We are not contracting each other as such. Modeling is at the heart of Federated Models as well
12:24:57 From rRanganai chaparadza : we are not contradicting each other
12:26:17 From Raymond Forbes ISG ENI, Huawei UK : RH
12:26:43 From Nurit Sprecher : RH
12:26:55 From rRanganai chaparadza : There is simply a misunderstanding on interpretation of what a Meta-Model
12:27:17 From klaus Martiny (DTAG) : i Have to leave sharp at 13:30
12:28:44 From Jörg Niemöller : I also think that it is not only a matter of which information models survive. This will definitely happen. But something like intent based operation marks a shift from action/process triggering API towards API for life-cycle management of knowledge objects (intent are such objects). These are conceptually different ways of doing API and I believe we have to agree on a common one. Just one example where missing alignment and common concepts will lead to conceptual incompatibility.
12:29:23 From Ton Brand (ETSI) : same here - need to leave at 13:30 sharp. can we share this google sheet as I am not able to access it via the link.
12:29:55 From Manchang Ju(ZTE) : fully agree to Lingli
12:30:14 From rRanganai chaparadza : The problem is that there is often lack of engagements on people or SDOs deeply competent in Modeling
12:30:24 From Thomas Tovinger (3GPP SA5 chair, Ericsson) : I can't access the google sheet link either, although I have a TMF account.
12:30:48 From klaus Martiny (DTAG) : cheers
12:32:26 From rRanganai chaparadza : What we mean by Overarching Blueprint of Common Operational Principles of Autonomic/Autonomous Networks, involves Mappings fore Federated Models as well
12:32:53 From rRanganai chaparadza : Including Ontologies for Taxonomy Harmonization
12:33:39 From Anatoly (Nokia) : +1 to Nurit - creating a "meta-organization" attempt would be a real disaster
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